CBS handed over USER DATA (including IP addresses) to the RIAA

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- prismatic7 pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 4:10
i think this tweet is very, very telling: http://twitter.com/arrington/status/1887795088

very little actual work is happening today at TechCrunch. http://tcrn.ch/1hD @crunchcam8:57 AM May 23rd from web

[quote][b][user]prismatic7[/user][/b] pisze: i think this tweet is very, very telling: http://twitter.com/arrington/status/1887795088 [quote]very little actual work is happening today at TechCrunch. http://tcrn.ch/1hD @crunchcam8:57 AM May 23rd from web [/quote][/quote]

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- Babs_05 pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 4:17
hah! I StumbleUpon'd it. So now the rest of the internet knows.
http://babs05.stumbleupon.com/review/33050166/

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irepli - mobile internet search Central Point: where artists and listeners meet

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] pisze: hah! I StumbleUpon'd it. So now the rest of the internet knows. http://babs05.stumbleupon.com/review/33050166/[/quote]

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- bunder2009 pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 4:29
I really hope this is all BS. If the RIAA goes to my ISP with my IP address and they fork it over, it's obvious what would happen.

My ISP has no problem ratting me out, I've had two emails as it is for downloading OLD ASS MOVIES that I might as well have recorded on my DVR. (Now that I have my mythtv DVR, I can record whatever I want, and keep it for as long as I want - take that broadcast flag! (...and eat me MPAA - the movies you've put out recently are garbage and don't compare to what was created in the 80's/90's))

I hate U2, but for all we know, (if this is true) anyone who downloaded a song before the release date is going to end up with a lawsuit. Could we then in-turn, sue lastfm/CBS for leaking our IP's?

[quote][b][user]bunder2009[/user][/b] pisze: I really hope this is all BS. If the RIAA goes to my ISP with my IP address and they fork it over, it's obvious what would happen. My ISP has no problem ratting me out, I've had two emails as it is for downloading OLD ASS MOVIES that I might as well have recorded on my DVR. (Now that I have my mythtv DVR, I can record whatever I want, and keep it for as long as I want - take that broadcast flag! (...and eat me MPAA - the movies you've put out recently are garbage and don't compare to what was created in the 80's/90's)) I hate U2, but for all we know, (if this is true) anyone who downloaded a song before the release date is going to end up with a lawsuit. Could we then in-turn, sue lastfm/CBS for leaking our IP's?[/quote]

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- alpha pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 4:32
This really isn't that complicated...

Techrunch have no reason to be biased here and to be honest it's rather frustrating that fundamental questions that they are asking are not being answered. why is there no open dialogue being created by last.fm/cbs and techcrunch to resolve this issue, simply saying that techrunch is talking bullshit is really not enough here, that's far too easy to do on your behalf

some answers please:

1. Are they claiming that the initial story, including the email allegedly from a former CBS employee, was completely fabricated by our source? Was there no data request by CBS in February? If there was one, was data transmitted to CBS? Did CBS pass it on to the RIAA or one or more music labels?

2. You say “Any suggestion that we were complicit in transferring user data to any third party is incorrect.” Ok. How about a suggestion that you were innocently involved in transferring data to a third party, and subsequently outraged when you discovered what happened?

3. We believe Last.fm staffers have been agreeing with our story in private conversations for some time. Why the private agreement and the public broad denial? We have emails from Last.fm and CBS employees that are saying quite the opposite from what you are.

4. We believe Last.fm put in broad new data policies following our February story. If the original story was completely untrue, why did they put new data policies in place?

5. What is CBS’ position on this story?

[quote][b][user]alpha[/user][/b] pisze: Techrunch have no reason to be biased here and to be honest it's rather frustrating that fundamental questions that they are asking are not being answered. why is there no open dialogue being created by last.fm/cbs and techcrunch to resolve this issue, simply saying that techrunch is talking bullshit is really not enough here, that's far too easy to do on your behalf some answers please: 1. Are they claiming that the initial story, including the email allegedly from a former CBS employee, was completely fabricated by our source? Was there no data request by CBS in February? If there was one, was data transmitted to CBS? Did CBS pass it on to the RIAA or one or more music labels? 2. You say “Any suggestion that we were complicit in transferring user data to any third party is incorrect.” Ok. How about a suggestion that you were innocently involved in transferring data to a third party, and subsequently outraged when you discovered what happened? 3. We believe Last.fm staffers have been agreeing with our story in private conversations for some time. Why the private agreement and the public broad denial? We have emails from Last.fm and CBS employees that are saying quite the opposite from what you are. 4. We believe Last.fm put in broad new data policies following our February story. If the original story was completely untrue, why did they put new data policies in place? 5. What is CBS’ position on this story? [/quote]

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- Babs_05 pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 4:33
bunder2009 said:
I hate U2, but for all we know, (if this is true) anyone who downloaded a song before the release date is going to end up with a lawsuit. Could we then in-turn, sue lastfm/CBS for leaking our IP's?That's alarmist. Even if people were faced with lawsuits, it could never be proved. Remember, we can change tags to anything we want. Also, the album was on MySpace (USA) prior to release, and many of us use Universal Scrobbler. And also, it was on Spotify at the same time.

It's all crock.

NNME Feb NNME Archives My Gang Albums 10 Chiller Cabinet Arctic Circle

irepli - mobile internet search Central Point: where artists and listeners meet

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]bunder2009[/user][/b] said: I hate U2, but for all we know, (if this is true) anyone who downloaded a song before the release date is going to end up with a lawsuit. Could we then in-turn, sue lastfm/CBS for leaking our IP's?[/quote]That's alarmist. Even if people were faced with lawsuits, it could never be proved. Remember, we can change tags to anything we want. Also, the album was on MySpace (USA) prior to release, and many of us use Universal Scrobbler. And also, it was on Spotify at the same time. It's all crock.[/quote]

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- bunder2009 pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 4:38
Babs_05 said:
That's alarmist. Even if people were faced with lawsuits, it could never be proved.

Also, the album was on MySpace (USA) prior to release, and many of us use Universal Scrobbler. And also, it was on Spotify at the same time.

It's all crock.

maybe, but with mediasentry, you never know who's watching you download that random song...

[quote][b][user]bunder2009[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: That's alarmist. Even if people were faced with lawsuits, it could never be proved. Also, the album was on MySpace (USA) prior to release, and many of us use Universal Scrobbler. And also, it was on Spotify at the same time. It's all crock.[/quote] maybe, but with mediasentry, you never know who's watching you download that random song...[/quote]

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- Babs_05 pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 4:39
many people swap files and download stuff for all sorts of reasons, from businesses to charities. no one can prove what the content is.

NNME Feb NNME Archives My Gang Albums 10 Chiller Cabinet Arctic Circle

irepli - mobile internet search Central Point: where artists and listeners meet

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] pisze: many people swap files and download stuff for all sorts of reasons, from businesses to charities. no one can prove what the content is.[/quote]

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- DemonSweat pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 4:39
Re: This really isn't that complicated...

Babs_05 said:
bunder2009 said:
I hate U2, but for all we know, (if this is true) anyone who downloaded a song before the release date is going to end up with a lawsuit. Could we then in-turn, sue lastfm/CBS for leaking our IP's?That's alarmist. Even if people were faced with lawsuits, it could never be proved. Remember, we can change tags to anything we want. Also, the album was on MySpace (USA) prior to release, and many of us use Universal Scrobbler. And also, it was on Spotify at the same time.

It's all crock.

I'd like to see an official response from CBS.

[quote][b][user]DemonSweat[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]bunder2009[/user][/b] said: I hate U2, but for all we know, (if this is true) anyone who downloaded a song before the release date is going to end up with a lawsuit. Could we then in-turn, sue lastfm/CBS for leaking our IP's?[/quote]That's alarmist. Even if people were faced with lawsuits, it could never be proved. Remember, we can change tags to anything we want. Also, the album was on MySpace (USA) prior to release, and many of us use Universal Scrobbler. And also, it was on Spotify at the same time. It's all crock.[/quote] I'd like to see an official response from CBS.[/quote]

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- jonstead pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 4:45
more internet drama :]

tweet @jonfresh

[quote][b][user]jonstead[/user][/b] pisze: [img]http://i43.tinypic.com/1zfsv9x.jpg[/img] more internet drama :][/quote]

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- TheBomfy pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 5:20
Things seemed to have mellowed a bit. I'm leaning to the side that this will not be the terrible crisis as some have said, Mr. Stead, you summed it up well with colors too boot. The whole deleting comment fiasco clinched my disbelief.

But the thing is, the folks that are certain Last.fm is evil will always think it's evil. Oddly enough they will probably be the forerunners the next time this happens.

321, are you ready to rock?

[quote][b][user]TheBomfy[/user][/b] pisze: Things seemed to have mellowed a bit. I'm leaning to the side that this will not be the terrible crisis as some have said, Mr. Stead, you summed it up well with colors too boot. The whole deleting comment fiasco clinched my disbelief. But the thing is, the folks that are certain Last.fm is evil will always think it's evil. Oddly enough they will probably be the forerunners the next time this happens.[/quote]

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- sam_george pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:00
does it really matter if the RIAA come knocking on your door ? Remember, Hypem, Sprooogle (or whatever is called) can Scrobble tracks to last.fm and that means they are not on your computer so were is the illegal activity ?

last.fm state that listing fingerprinting is anonymous, so all RIAA could do with the data is she what users are on the site, has nothing to do with scrobbles... and that is true as i have just looked on charles to see what gets submitted ;)

Just seen a sign outside B&Q: "Stainless Steel Sinks". Bit obvious, I thought

[quote][b][user]sam_george[/user][/b] pisze: does it really matter if the RIAA come knocking on your door ? Remember, Hypem, Sprooogle (or whatever is called) can Scrobble tracks to last.fm and that means they are not on your computer so were is the illegal activity ? last.fm state that listing fingerprinting is anonymous, so all RIAA could do with the data is she what users are on the site, has nothing to do with scrobbles... and that is true as i have just looked on charles to see what gets submitted ;)[/quote]

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- alexmuller pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:01
Oh, waking up to this latest part was fun. TechCrunch were censoring comments that suggested their story might not have been watertight? Hilarious!

http://alex.mullr.net/blog

[quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] pisze: Oh, waking up to this latest part was fun. TechCrunch were censoring comments that suggested their story might not have been watertight? Hilarious![/quote]

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- madmax_cro pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:29
Babs_05 said:
many people swap files and download stuff for all sorts of reasons, from businesses to charities. no one can prove what the content is.

you dont know how internet works then.

everything you do on internet your isp see.

I mean this in very god way for ria to collect data. Another is to to upload prerelease content or illegal content over the web and watch who is downloading.

im not saying that this is true i love lastfm, that's why i become subscriber, but i honestly think that techcurch would gain more from another iphone rumor than this. I see no motive for them to make up something like this.

I'm pretty sure there is something beneath this story but i don't know what exactly.

Lastfm i love you so please come on with something that is not "we love you we would never do it."

[quote][b][user]madmax_cro[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: many people swap files and download stuff for all sorts of reasons, from businesses to charities. no one can prove what the content is.[/quote] you dont know how internet works then. everything you do on internet your isp see. I mean this in very god way for ria to collect data. Another is to to upload prerelease content or illegal content over the web and watch who is downloading. im not saying that this is true i love lastfm, that's why i become subscriber, but i honestly think that techcurch would gain more from another iphone rumor than this. I see no motive for them to make up something like this. I'm pretty sure there is something beneath this story but i don't know what exactly. Lastfm i love you so please come on with something that is not "we love you we would never do it."[/quote]

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- alexmuller pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:34
madmax_cro said:
Lastfm i love you so please come on with something that is not "we love you we would never do it."Ok, what if that is actually the whole truth?

Imagine for one second that I call you a murderer. What's that, you're denying it? No, no, you need to come up with something better than that. I don't believe it.

http://alex.mullr.net/blog

[quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]madmax_cro[/user][/b] said: Lastfm i love you so please come on with something that is not "we love you we would never do it."[/quote]Ok, what if that is actually the whole truth? Imagine for one second that I call you a murderer. What's that, you're denying it? No, no, you need to come up with something better than that. I don't believe it.[/quote]

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- _oao pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:43
madmax_cro said:
I see no motive for them to make up something like this. Personal vendetta/grudge?

[quote][b][user]_oao[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]madmax_cro[/user][/b] said: I see no motive for them to make up something like this. [/quote]Personal vendetta/grudge?[/quote]

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- rickmb pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 8:52
Last.fm keeps doing what Last.fm has been doing for the last few months: publishing blanket denials and pushing PR-speak but never, ever answering critical questions or engaging in a meaningful dialogue with its users.

Last.fm is flushing it's credibility down the drain, and simply shooting the messenger won't do this time.

The total lack of transparency the lack of communication and the lack of user control over their data make everything Last.fm does or say suspect.

The "of course we would never doe such a thing" attitude may be genuine, but it's no longer credible since Last.fm decided to abuse the contributions and the trust of it's users against them by introducing the discriminatory paywall for non-UK/US/DE residents.

"We are the good guys" is not enough anymore. Last.fm has told us in no uncertain terms that it's a business, so start acting like a professional business. A modern, transparent and ethical business.

Techcrunch has always been full of shit, but they've also always been full of scoops and inside information. Techcrunch has a high level of transparency and an active dialogue with it's readers and critics that balances out the risk they take when publishing inside rumors and gossip.

Last.fm on the other hand has been increasingly secretive, uncommunicative, deceitful en disrespectful towards its users. (Not to mention the fact that Last.fm is fully owned by CBS, which has absolutely zero credibility when it comes to respecting users' rights.)

Right now, TC is considerably more credible than Last.fm.

Last.fm users get the mushroom treatment: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. TC can make up a thousand stories and they'll all be more credible than Last.fm's denials as long as Last.fm keeps up this arrogant attitude.

[quote][b][user]rickmb[/user][/b] pisze: Last.fm keeps doing what Last.fm has been doing for the last few months: publishing blanket denials and pushing PR-speak but never, ever answering critical questions or engaging in a meaningful dialogue with its users. Last.fm is flushing it's credibility down the drain, and simply shooting the messenger won't do this time. The total lack of transparency the lack of communication and the lack of user control over [i]their[/i] data make everything Last.fm does or say suspect. The "of course we would never doe such a thing" attitude may be genuine, but it's no longer credible since Last.fm decided to abuse the contributions and the trust of it's users against them by introducing the discriminatory paywall for non-UK/US/DE residents. "We are the good guys" is not enough anymore. Last.fm has told us in no uncertain terms that it's a business, so start acting like a professional business. A modern, transparent and ethical business. Techcrunch has always been full of shit, but they've also always been full of scoops and inside information. Techcrunch has a high level of transparency and an active dialogue with it's readers and critics that balances out the risk they take when publishing inside rumors and gossip. Last.fm on the other hand has been increasingly secretive, uncommunicative, [i]deceitful[/i] en disrespectful towards its users. (Not to mention the fact that Last.fm is fully owned by CBS, which has absolutely zero credibility when it comes to respecting users' rights.) Right now, TC is considerably more credible than Last.fm. Last.fm users get the mushroom treatment: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. TC can make up a thousand stories and they'll all be more credible than Last.fm's denials as long as Last.fm keeps up this arrogant attitude.[/quote]

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- madmax_cro pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:57
alexmuller said:
madmax_cro said:
Lastfm i love you so please come on with something that is not "we love you we would never do it."Ok, what if that is actually the whole truth?

Imagine for one second that I call you a murderer. What's that, you're denying it? No, no, you need to come up with something better than that. I don't believe it.

ok then,why are you not calling me a murder ?

yes i think you need a reason, prof.
come on think of something plausible, find people that saw me and i will answer.

[quote][b][user]madmax_cro[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]madmax_cro[/user][/b] said: Lastfm i love you so please come on with something that is not "we love you we would never do it."[/quote]Ok, what if that is actually the whole truth? Imagine for one second that I call you a murderer. What's that, you're denying it? No, no, you need to come up with something better than that. I don't believe it.[/quote] ok then,why are you not calling me a murder ? yes i think you need a reason, prof. come on think of something plausible, find people that saw me and i will answer.[/quote]

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- blubloblu pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 8:59
RIAA bullies CBS into getting private user data illegally by threatening to increase radio fees.
Doesn't sound too far off the kind of things the RIAA do.

[quote][b][user]blubloblu[/user][/b] pisze: RIAA bullies CBS into getting private user data illegally by threatening to increase radio fees. Doesn't sound too far off the kind of things the RIAA do.[/quote]

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- nirmanapro pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 9:16
totally disappointed..

http://www.ynmcreations.com

[quote][b][user]nirmanapro[/user][/b] pisze: totally disappointed..[/quote]

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- jotakoi pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 9:19
alexmuller said:
Imagine for one second that I call you a murderer. What's that, you're denying it? No, no, you need to come up with something better than that. I don't believe it.The butler did it...

I'm sure we all get a proper and official response from Last.fm/CBS next week and hopefully it's something less juvenile than "Techcrunch are full of shit".

"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off."
-Gloria Marie Steinem

[quote][b][user]jotakoi[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] said: Imagine for one second that I call you a murderer. What's that, you're denying it? No, no, you need to come up with something better than that. I don't believe it.[/quote]The butler did it... I'm sure we all get a proper and official response from Last.fm/CBS next week and hopefully it's something less juvenile than "Techcrunch are full of shit".[/quote]

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- nirmanapro pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 9:19
Deny this, Last.fm

http://www.ynmcreations.com

[quote][b][user]nirmanapro[/user][/b] pisze: [url=http://digg.com/tech_news/Deny_This_Last_fm]Deny this, Last.fm[/url][img]http://www.ospreydesign.com/foreword/archives/disappointed.jpg[/img][/quote]

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- trixietrinian pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 9:25
rickmb said:
Techcrunch has a high level of transparency and an active dialogue with it's readers and critics
hah! yes, they were very "active" indeed with their critics last night.

"a fly crouching in a sandwich cannot comprehend how it has become more than ordinarily vulnerable" - ivor cutler

[quote][b][user]trixietrinian[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]rickmb[/user][/b] said: Techcrunch has a high level of transparency and an active dialogue with it's readers and critics[/quote] hah! yes, they were very "active" indeed with their critics last night.[/quote]

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- Russ pisze...
- Subskrybent
- 24 V 2009, 9:45
For the benefit of TechCrunch, because apparently I didn't make things clear enough the first time.

* Nobody at Last.fm had any knowledge of our user data being fed to the RIAA (or any labels directly), before or after the alleged incident, or at any other point in the history of the company.

* Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to any third party.

* Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to CBS (who, by the way, we don't consider a third party, but who do have to uphold our privacy policy).

* We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data.

If TechCrunch have any evidence which contradicts any of the statements I've made here, I'd love to see it, but I think someone is taking them for a ride. I'm not sure why, though.

[quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] pisze: For the benefit of TechCrunch, because apparently I didn't make things clear enough the first time. * Nobody at Last.fm had any knowledge of our user data being fed to the RIAA (or any labels directly), before or after the alleged incident, or at any other point in the history of the company. * Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to [b]any[/b] third party. * Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to CBS (who, by the way, we don't consider a third party, but who do have to uphold our privacy policy). * We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data. If TechCrunch have any evidence which contradicts any of the statements I've made here, I'd love to see it, but I think someone is taking them for a ride. I'm not sure why, though.[/quote]

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- DFA1979 pisze...
- Moderator
- 24 V 2009, 9:50
trixietrinian said:
rickmb said:
Techcrunch has a high level of transparency and an active dialogue with it's readers and critics
hah! yes, they were very "active" indeed with their critics last night.Considering my last few attempts at posting have all mysteriously not appeared in the comments list, I presume I've been blocked altogether. That strikes me as a very strange definition of 'active dialogue'.

[edit: yes, my e-mail's definitely been blacklisted from comments, using a different address my comments magically appear.]

[quote][b][user]DFA1979[/user][/b] pisze: [quote][b][user]trixietrinian[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]rickmb[/user][/b] said: Techcrunch has a high level of transparency and an active dialogue with it's readers and critics[/quote] hah! yes, they were very "active" indeed with their critics last night.[/quote]Considering my last few attempts at posting have all mysteriously not appeared in the comments list, I presume I've been blocked altogether. That strikes me as a [b]very[/b] strange definition of 'active dialogue'. [edit: yes, my e-mail's definitely been blacklisted from comments, using a different address my comments magically appear.][/quote]
Edytowane przez DFA1979 24 V 2009, 10:08

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- Fewmanchu pisze...
- Użytkownik
- 24 V 2009, 9:51
Last.fm is in deep trouble and the best they can come up with is a weak post on their own forum? Sorry, but that's not good enough. The utter lack of communication skills has been a plague to this formerly great company...

Also, those of you automatically puking over TechCrunch forgets that they are one of very few technology blogs that actually do admit being wrong from time to time. That's the reason for their number one position in the world.

[quote][b][user]Fewmanchu[/user][/b] pisze: Last.fm is in deep trouble and the best they can come up with is a weak post on their own forum? Sorry, but that's not good enough. The utter lack of communication skills has been a plague to this formerly great company... Also, those of you automatically puking over TechCrunch forgets that they are one of very few technology blogs that actually do admit being wrong from time to time. That's the reason for their number one position in the world. [/quote]

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